Bush is a Whimp...he said he'd fire the leaker, not accept their resignation.
From a guy who sees the world only in black and white and good and evil, he sure likes to equivocate.
I would have grudgingly admired him if he'd told Libby he couldn't accept the resignation, he had to fire fire him in order to maintain the honor and dignity he brought back to the....
Oh, sorry, faulty premise. There is no honor or dignity in this White House.
Fingers crossed that the truth will finally come out....but I bet the paper shredders are already humming and drafts of executive orders are already being printed.
Their strategy is to continue to attack Joe Wilson, which is what got them into trouble in the first place.
And when the Republicans keep saying that the underlying allegation has not been proven...that no federal crime was committed in outing Valerie Plame...why don't the Democrats or the journalists ask, "Then why the hell did they keep lying about it?"
You either have to accept that Libby and company knowingly committed a crime because they were covering up something they knew was wrong....or they were incompetent enough to commit these crimes without cause or justification.
I hate to admit it, but I guess I'd rather have a competent liar helping run my country than an incompetent one....so stop making it worse than it is, people, and give us a leader of the free world who is willing to take some frigging responsibility. Please, I'm begging you. Give us an evil genius instead of forcing us to accept that we've got a bunch of evil idiots running the show.
As a dreamer, I'm also hoping that a lengthy trial will force the American People to accept their share of the blame for putting these guys in power.
Lastly, where the hell is Bob Novak in this whole thing?
I still can't figure out why, if he is the one who wrote the story, his name never comes up in any relation to the scandal.
I would have grudgingly admired him if he'd told Libby he couldn't accept the resignation, he had to fire fire him in order to maintain the honor and dignity he brought back to the....
Oh, sorry, faulty premise. There is no honor or dignity in this White House.
Fingers crossed that the truth will finally come out....but I bet the paper shredders are already humming and drafts of executive orders are already being printed.
Their strategy is to continue to attack Joe Wilson, which is what got them into trouble in the first place.
And when the Republicans keep saying that the underlying allegation has not been proven...that no federal crime was committed in outing Valerie Plame...why don't the Democrats or the journalists ask, "Then why the hell did they keep lying about it?"
You either have to accept that Libby and company knowingly committed a crime because they were covering up something they knew was wrong....or they were incompetent enough to commit these crimes without cause or justification.
I hate to admit it, but I guess I'd rather have a competent liar helping run my country than an incompetent one....so stop making it worse than it is, people, and give us a leader of the free world who is willing to take some frigging responsibility. Please, I'm begging you. Give us an evil genius instead of forcing us to accept that we've got a bunch of evil idiots running the show.
As a dreamer, I'm also hoping that a lengthy trial will force the American People to accept their share of the blame for putting these guys in power.
Lastly, where the hell is Bob Novak in this whole thing?
I still can't figure out why, if he is the one who wrote the story, his name never comes up in any relation to the scandal.
posted by Archie Levine at 1:27 PM
9 Comments:
VET,
How conservative are you if you thing that Robert Novak is a liberal journalist?
Holy Crap!
Or have you never read and listened to this administration apologist but just assume that all journalists are liberal if they are on a "MAINSTREAM" network and not AM talk radio?
Just the kind of intelligent and informed opinions that have put this country in the crapper.
Again, I ask you and everyone else who keeps saying that outing Plame was not a crime....then why the hell did they feel the need to commit so many crimes to cover up that they had outed her?
If it isn't the leak they are covering up, then what are they covering up?
And why the heck don't you care?
Is it just, "He's a liar, but he's my liar and I'm sticking with him."?
Are you a co-dependent battered spouse, VET?
And VET...Why don't you people who are complaining that Libby wasn't charged with the underlying charge...outing a covert agent...ever address the fact that an obstruction charge means that Libby made it as difficult as possible, if not impossible, to make that underlying indictment because Libby was actively working to prevent that.
You know, OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
Fitzgerald kept saying over and over that when you have obstruction, it becemes very diffcult to make charges beyond the obstruction stick.
So, kudos, your guy may have beaten the original rap but he's going down for beating it.
At the end of the day, you and your Radio Mouths are doing nothing to restore the trust and confidence that we all should have in our President.
Lastly...uh, you said: "He pretty much indicted him without a trial to the public. Where the hell is his ethics?" (punctuation corrected)
Usually the indictment DOES come before a trial. You probably meant "condemned," but like I tell my students, I have to judge what you write, not what I presume you meant to write.....so, instead of going after Fitzgerald's ethics...which when this all started Republicans (including the president) hailed to the heavens, you should ask where the hell is your logic and understanding of the issue.
But then, like Neal Boortz, you'd only blame your failure to understand something complex (like how the courts work) on the failings of the "government schools" that provided that education.
I don't think the perjury charge was political gotcha. I think Libby committed perjury and he got caught.
Going after Iran is going to be very difficult now...precisely because your president so badly botched his justification for going into Iraq. Nearly every reason he used (falsely) for going into Iraq could have been used (truthfully) for going int Iran.
But he didn't. He makes mistakes he won't admit and your party won't hold him accountable for.
And so, we all have to pay for them.
I saw Headliners and Legends last night on MSNBC about GW and his reasons for going into Iraq. One was oil,but oil that Saddam was using profits for to fund his illegal doings and to fund terrorism. We went there to "stir things up" after 9/11,instead of doing nothing like the previous administration waiting for the next attack.
Please,corruption belongs to Democrats and Republicans alike. That's politics for you no matter what party you belong to. It's all a game to get their parties in the White House. We also saw it with Clinton. Remember how the Democrats went after Ken Starr for like 2 years after his perjury charge. So yes the republicans have the same option.
VET
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007462
VET
Vet, you never fail to confuse me.
I read the Wall Street Journal op ed piece you put up the url to. Did you?
It doesn't seem to jive with your stated opinions about Fitzgerald or the investigation.
Or did you mean to say that you took my advice, got educated, and now agree with the editorial where it said:
"We now face the spectacle that Mr. Fitzgerald, a respected prosecutor of unquestioned integrity, may face claims of an unwarranted prosecution. That spectacle will come in two acts. Act I has already started, with some pointing out that perjury and obstruction of justice are not appropriate subjects for a prosecution when the initial focus was on the leak of a covert agent's identity. Never mind the hypocrisy that these Republican voices applauded when a Democratic president was investigated for perjury and obstruction by a prosecutor who began by looking into a real-estate deal." (emphasis added)
Or, maybe it was this that you agreed with in the article you cite:
"The difference is everything: In the low-level staffer case, censure of the employee removes the bad apple and reassures the intelligence community that the White House can be trusted. With a high-level official privy to all sorts of secrets, possessing clearances for compartmentalized information that cuts across so many areas, condoning a leak gravely jeopardizes the information flow to the White House. Nothing could be more damaging than an intelligence community that feels it cannot give information to the White House for fear of leaking sources and methods. That concern, always present, is at its apogee when high-level leaks go unpunished." (emphasis added)
I get that you are upset that there is such a thing as a special prosecutor and that you think they have too much power. Fine, that may change, just liket he article advocates, but we have to live in the NOW. Work to change the system but crying about the sytem won't change the facts...your guys did something enormously wrong and they are compounding that by doing even more wrong things to cover it up and excuse themselves.
I would think that Republicans would be working harder to prove they are not liars than they are to prove that what they lied about isn't important.
I ask again, if it wasn't important, then why perjure yourself over it and risk 30 years in jail? That dog don't hunt.
One last thing, I'll quote one of your heroes--Ed Meese--in regard to your hatred of the special prosecutor:
"Only the guilty have reason to fear."
The idea that Plame wasn't covert and therefore no crime was committed is something that's been trumpetted about a couple of times by the conservative media, and it's both wrong and terrible for the following reasons -
1) Firstly, the CIA (whom knows who among them is covert and who is not) has stated, without ambiguity, that Valerie Plame's outing was a violation of the law, ergo, she was covert. It was also the CIA who requested the investigation of her outing, which led to LIbby.
2) Libby PERJURED himself, which, even if Valerie Plame wasn't covert, is something he should go to jail for. Again, he lied to the FBI (and we know those boys don't fool around) he lied to the proscuter and he lied to the Grand Jury. This IS a crime. So even IF your statement that Plame wasn't covert (which she was) is true, Libby still committed a crime (five to be exact) during the investigation of the allegations. He did a terrible thing as a representative of our government, and it pains me that you refuse to see that.
3) Libby is innocent until proven guilty ONLY in the EYES OF THE JUDGE and JURY. According to the Supreme Court, however, public opinion is a far different matter. The public can consider him guilty all we wish, we do not have to consider him innocent until proven guilty, only the jury does. And this trial will doubtfully make it to a jury. Why?
Perjury is a hard charge to dodge, because the criminal actions are on record (like the cameras at traffic lights who catch you running a red) and generally a person charged with perjury is caught in the act. Obstruction, it's possible to dodge - lying to investigators? That can be spun. But perjury? Very tough, especially with an indictment as clear and tight as this. Libby's guilty, Vet, and there is little doubt about it. He'll plead out.
And he'll also plead out because if his boss is called to trial, it will only get worse. He knows it, the VP knows it and so does Dubya. Their lies will also be on record. There's a reason that when the VP and Dubya testified before the 911 commission, they refused to do so under oath. Because they would have had to perjure themselves.
Libby's guilty, and it's only the beginning.
Don't understand your attachment to this particular brand of dishonest cowboys we have corrupting our administration . . . but if you really, TRULY believe that they have done an excellent job with our country (Katrina, WTC, Wilma, Huge Debt) and to our soldiers (WMDs not there, no armor, bad intellegence and enlisted men and women sent to prison for torturing on orders from above) then I think you should really take a good, hard look at yourself in the mirror. Honestly. You deserve a better President.
We all do.
Firstly our soldiers were not sent to torture,and not given orders to do so. You're not there so you don't know the circumstances of that.
Secondly GW may go down as being one of the best presidents ever but you can't see past the hatred to see that now. But history may prove otherwise. One day you may look back and here those famous last words "I told you so".
We know it's a rebuplican thing with you but hey it's a democrat thing with me.
And thirdly just remember there is corruption in all government. Who was your "Perfect President"?
VET
I don't hate George Bush, I hate what his policies and agenda are doing to my country, and by extension, the world. I hate the way he has co-opted one of the world's great religions and turned it into a tool to gain political power instead of a path to humility and redemption.
But I guess I'd rather have you people tell me I hate George Bush than keep telling me I hate America.
That was really pissing me off.
Actually Arhie I was replying to Joshua's comment,sorry for the confusion.
We all know how great Clinton's policies were though. It got us attacked 4 x.
I don't feel he did anything to religion. If he feels a certain way,why is that so bad. It has to be either far left or nothing? He's a conservative,what do you expect? He should appease his party just like the democrats appease their's.
VET
Dear Vet -
We know the soldiers were ordered to torture by their own testimony . . . see the letter written to McCain by one such soldier, and we know it was condoned cuz the Pres is now trying to push a law through to make it legal (one McCain is trying to block, having personal experience with torture) . . . so that's how we know that it was ordered from above. And I notice that you didn't respond to how inadequately the troops were supplied. Because you cannot without being critical of the war and the planners of the war. And you refuse to do that regardless of the load of empirical evidence.
And I don't believe I said hate, but if I did, so what? You've stated that GWB will go down in history as one of our greatest, but you don't cite specific examples of what he's done so well . . . and it would be hard for any President, D or R, to live down what happened with Katrina - so by stating that and overlooking what happened with THAT ALONE, I don't know what to say to you except that you're not looking at Bush as a Man or President, you only see Christian Republican and therefore are willfully blinding yourself to any and all failings, which are legion (and some of which I listed above) and that's why you're not responding to those very things. It's terrible, what you're doing, and personally I think you should have the courage to face the truth of what's actually happening, otherwise the one you're hurting most is yourself.
And I'm not a Democrat, by the way. Not that it should matter, but I'm not.
My fave President of all time I think would probably be Teddy Roosevelt, followed by Lincoln and Jefferson. Washington's on the list.
No one is perfect, but there's a difference between being flawed and being deliberately dishonest and corrupt. That's what this administration is.
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